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Hollowing a room ? - Unsolved

 
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Adar
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Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 233

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:19 am    Post subject: Hollowing a room ? - Unsolved Reply with quote

Is there a way to hollow a cube to segments so it would be grid aligned and have it still look like a cube as if I hollowed it by percentage?
Or is there a way to hollow it by percentage and have it grid aligned?
Ofcourse I can then edit the cube and have the result I want but do I really need to edit every room I make like that?

This is not what I want:


I want something like this just grid aligned:


Thanks !


Last edited by Adar on Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:37 pm; edited 4 times in total
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elementrix
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Joined: 11 May 2006
Posts: 1300
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hollow it with merged and the the percentage = 0
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Adar
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Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 233

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elementrix wrote:
hollow it with merged and the the percentage = 0

Nothing happened when on 0.
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Mr.Fletcher
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Joined: 07 Aug 2004
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Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you mean segemented or merged hollowing? If segmented, ou can set the segment depth to the grid size you're using.

Also, the word is "hollow" Wink
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Adar
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Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 233

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr.Fletcher wrote:
Do you mean segemented or merged hollowing? If segmented, ou can set the segment depth to the grid size you're using.

Also, the word is "hollow" Wink

I don't care, I just want a hollowed room that is a whole cube and is completely aligned with the grid.
This is what I'm aiming for:


This is not what I want but what I'm able to do with Deled:
Segments:

Merged:


Thanks for the spell check, learning English every day Smile
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elementrix
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Joined: 11 May 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

first create the outer cube, then create an cube and move it in the other cube as you want the walls of your room, then select all the face's of the inner cube and click on flip, now merge the both cube's but if you don't want them to be one object then don't merge.
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Adar
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Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 233

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elementrix wrote:
first create the outer cube, then create an cube and move it in the other cube as you want the walls of your room, then select all the face's of the inner cube and click on flip, now merge the both cube's but if you don't want them to be one object then don't merge.

All that for a simple room huh.. damn.. Confused
Well I guess that's something, thanks a lot ! Smile
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fik
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Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 303

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK here is how you do it.

1. With snapping on (double click the word snap to make dark on bottom indicator if not already)

2. Create your box, all corner vertexes will be snapped to grid.

3. Click on hollow in Low Polygon Editing box.

4. Click radio button Merged and enter your percentage in box e.g 80

5. Click OK

6. Inner surface created. But not snapped to grid ( dont't worry Smile )

7. Make sure object still selected, should be at this stage still unless you click any where on screen. Click Object Tab on Right panel.

8. Look down list to where it says Snap method on left , word on right will be 'none' click this.

9. Click little arrow to drop down selection box and click on the word vertex

10 . click in active screen.

11. Smile as now inner box has snapped to grid . Very Happy

Always looks a lot more comlicated when wrote down than when you actually do it. takes just a second.
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Adar
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Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fik wrote:
OK here is how you do it.

1. With snapping on (double click the word snap to make dark on bottom indicator if not already)

2. Create your box, all corner vertexes will be snapped to grid.

3. Click on hollow in Low Polygon Editing box.

4. Click radio button Merged and enter your percentage in box e.g 80

5. Click OK

6. Inner surface created. But not snapped to grid ( dont't worry Smile )

7. Make sure object still selected, should be at this stage still unless you click any where on screen. Click Object Tab on Right panel.

8. Look down list to where it says Snap method on left , word on right will be 'none' click this.

9. Click little arrow to drop down selection box and click on the word vertex

10 . click in active screen.

11. Smile as now inner box has snapped to grid . Very Happy

Always looks a lot more comlicated when wrote down than when you actually do it. takes just a second.

That does take a second, thanks !
I just don't understand why isn't everything gril aligned in the first place.
And why the hell is the inner cube is scaled down 2 squares from the sides of the outer cube and 1 square from the top and bottom.. heh
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Mr.Fletcher
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Joined: 07 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adar wrote:
And why the hell is the inner cube is scaled down 2 squares from the sides of the outer cube and 1 square from the top and bottom.. heh

This is because it's not a perfect cube. It's rather a cuboid with its horizontal sides longer than its vertical sides. What merged hollow does is to copy the object, scale it down, flip the polygons and merge it with the original model. If you scale down such an object, it will keep its ratio and thus makes you see this effect.
(I hope you understand what I'm trying to say, I'm a bit distracted right now)
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Daaark
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Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



This is bad geometry. You shouldn't ever have surfaces touching like that. If you want a proper hollow room. Make a cube and reverse the normals. Then you have an inward pointing room.

DeleD is not a brush editor.
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Jeroen
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adar wrote:

That does take a second, thanks !
I just don't understand why isn't everything gril aligned in the first place.
And why the hell is the inner cube is scaled down 2 squares from the sides of the outer cube and 1 square from the top and bottom.. heh


Well, you're only working with cubes here, but imagine you're using Hollow on a more complicated structure. Having all bottom vertices alligned to the grid could seriously mess up the object as a whole.

Btw, Daaark is right - that picture should some bad geometry. Although lots of modellers don't really care about faulty geometry like that. Rolling Eyes

Oh and btw, Mr. Fletcher is right too. Razz It's not a perfect cube you're hollowing, but a cuboid.
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Adar
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Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 233

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeroen wrote:
Well, you're only working with cubes here, but imagine you're using Hollow on a more complicated structure. Having all bottom vertices alligned to the grid could seriously mess up the object as a whole.

Well what if only the most bottom vert was aligned with the grid so the object would not be in the air like that..? That way if I wanted to put it on some sort of floor object I could do that precisely..
That way if wished everything could be grid aligned and precise without and wasted geometry? Wink
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jwatte
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Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 513

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be possible to write a plug-in that did just what you want, which is often known as "thicken walls" or "hollow inset." However, it would be even easier for the DeleD folks to write that as a command, because they already have CSG functions built.

The process could be made much simpler if someone wrote a plug-in that duplicated the selection, flipped the faces, then moved the faces in the direction of the face normal by one quantum. Keep track of which direction each face wants to push each vertex, and push each vertex by the sum of all movements. This would create the inside. You could then just use this as the inside, or you could merge the objects.

Note that the above algorithm is not robust in the case of very narrow shapes (smaller than 3 units).
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Daaark
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adar wrote:
That way if wished everything could be grid aligned and precise without and wasted geometry? Wink
Why do you have so much trouble understanding this? Just turn on vertex snapped, and all your vertices will be aligned on the grid ALL THE TIME.

You can't have this imaginary uber snap and auto handling of 'wasted geometry' (brush based stuff is the king of wasted geometry) in a free form 3d modeler.

A free form 3d modeler runs under entirely different concepts. A brush based modeler is a relic from the past when old FPS games could only handle very basic shapes and a lack of precision, and everything had to conform to the limits of those engines. This is more of an abstraction of 3d modeling, than actual 3d modeling.

In a free form 3d modeler you can create any shape you can imagine, and you don't have to have every vertex stuck on the grid, because there is no limitation on the shapes to maintain. This allows all kinds of freedom you won't get in a brush environment.

If all the vertices of your column were stuck on the grid, it wouldn't appear very round. If you need it to fit between the floor and ceiling, just find out what the space is. If it's 100 units, make a column that is 100 units tall, and set to center snap. Then you can just shove it into the room and it will snap between the floor and ceiling. It won't have to go through the floor or ceiling, nor do you need any complicated unions.
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