DeleD Community Edition

[Mr.Fletcher]

DeleD has grown a lot in the past years, but the basic GUI has basically remained the same. The growing complexity makes things harder to find than they were before. I'm especially talking about the Geometry Toolbox. There you have thirty commands in plain text, and the majority of them are disabled anyway (because they are not available in the current edit mode). I understand that it benefits if the position of all command buttons stay the same, independent of which edit mode is enabled. But still, It takes me a bit to find commands like triangulate or flatten.
The current way seems to be just to add another button at the end of the list for a new command that's implemented. That way, the order of the buttons gives no information about the importance (probability that the user will need it) of the command. A function like Lathe should be at the end of _every_ list.
I don't know if I'm the only one who is bothered by that, so maybe you guys should start a poll or something.

I think it would be nice to only display the available commands for each edit mode and maybe add icons or totally do without text. (keep some kind of mouse over description though)
_________________
Behold! The DeleD Wiki! Please help us expanding it
DeleD on IRC

[Jeroen]

The advantage of doing things the way they're done now is that the user doesn't have to figure out what a particular icon means. I've tried icons years ago and couldn't come up with an understandable icon for every command I had in mind back then. A lot more commands have been added over the years and I would have even a harder time designing icons for those new command as well. Imagine having 30 icons right next to each other. A lot would look rather simular. Others might be interpreted wrongly. Some modeling apps do things like that, but I have a hard time trying to predict what some of those icons represent. To me, Text provides more information rather quickly.

But indeed, the current method doesn't give information about the importance of a command. The question is: what determines the importance of a command? That very much depends on the modeling style of the user, I think. Sofar, I think we should stick with the Text buttons but I´m open to suggestions, of course.
_________________
Check out Figuro, our online 3D app! More powerful 3D tools for free.

[elementrix]

you could hide all the text buttons that don't work in the mode your in, that way each time you switch mode the texts will change (except for move, rotate, scale). That way you will save some space and make it easier to understand for new users.
_________________
Chickens RULE | www.elementrix.nl

[trucker2000]

[WhiteWing]

[zephar123]

I prefer text as well.

[Paul-Jan]

Replacing text by icons, unless those are downright brilliant, tends to make a 'too many different options' problem worse. So I do think we should stick with text.

The problem you are trying to address is very real, it definitely can't hurt to discuss things a bit.

Basically, I see two ways to improve accessibility (possibly used in combination):
1. Grouping. Making subcategories for the different tools. They'd have to be really clear subcategories, and should not be hiding stuff too much for new users.
2. A "favorites" mechanism. Like the smart menu's in the Office 2000/2003 line of products. Or, for a slightly less horrible example, the quick access to most frequently used applications in the Windows Start Menu (XP/Vista).

Also, while I think replacing text with icons is bad, adding an icon might be good. I am thinking something along the lines of the component toolbox in Visual Studio / Delphi IDE's, where you have all tools as big buttons (with icon + text) in an easily navigated list that can be sorted either alphabetically or by category.

I.e., similar to

but with less of a programmer look-and-feel to it.

[trucker2000]

That's not a bad idea, but I think just simply hiding the links to things that don't work with the particular mode you are in would go even further in cleaning up the UI. Currently, DeleD just "unhighlights" the link if it isn't functional. What I'm talking about is just hiding the link altogether if it's unuseable and putting the rest grouped together.

So for object mode as an example, the UI would look something like:

Move...........Scale...Rotate
Triangulate..Hollow..Merge
Mirror..........Align....Clone


Etc....

(now to see if phpbb screwed this up) Edit: It did so I used dots to fill the gaps and keep the formatting correct.
_________________
Some day I will grow up and be a real modeler.
"Never give up! Never surrender!!"
Sys specs:
asus
8 gigs ram
Invidia gtx560 video card
Windows 8 (worst op sys Ever)

[Paul-Jan]

Hiding options that can't currently be used has a major flaw (it's a classic UI design topic of discussion): to new users it might not be 100% clear what they can do in which mode (or even what mode they are currently in), so they won't be able to find those options at all...

Of course, on the other hand, those same people are currently confused by the fact that they have disabled options on their screen without a clue as to why they can't access that functionality.

On a different foot, I'm personally kinda opposed to the restless look and feel this would impose on the toolbox. Changing modes (which happens quite often in any workflow) would drastically alter the looks of the available set of buttons that is (for most layouts) permanently visible on screen.

[ash]

hi, I have nerve damage in one hand, so keyboard shortcuts are not good for me.

everything should be a button I can press, or on a flyout menu, say from right clicking. If this is remembered in making the UI, Deled will go far.
_________________
quid quid latine dictum sit
DeleD PRO User

[Paul-Jan]

Ah, excellent point! Usually we get the request the other way around (from people who can't use a mouse for whatever reason).

[Grandmaster B]

Take a look at Wings3D. It has an excellent right-click menu and can be used with one or two hands.

[ash]

yes, I use wings3D, and about 6 or 8 other 3D apps. Wings is wonderful, but it is not a CSG editor like Deled. I have several things I use for general purpose 3D, but Deled is really geared for games, especially as a nonspecific editor for levels. I hope that they do take a look at wings when making the UI. One app I use for modeling a lot is Hexagon from daz3d, it has a great custom toolbar, where you can put pretty much any tool on to it. it can float anywhere and be reconfigured in a few clicks. So when you are doing one kind of op, like box modeling, you can pull the 3 or 4 tools you use most, and put them right next to where you are working, just by making a few clicks, then set up the bar differently when you go to say UV wrap or paint. Having custom toolbars that I can load or unload just by say right clicking, or middle clicking on a button, and have that button copied to the custom bar, would be good for lettng people build the UI around how they work. um, sry to go on...
_________________
quid quid latine dictum sit
DeleD PRO User

[harper]

I have an idea about icons: In the dialog with "rotate" little icons for rotating things -90, -45, etc. could simplify our lifes.

[harper]

I am not sure, this was been discussed elsewhere, but:
It would be helpful if a ("This is an SYMMETRIC") object, where you could choose an sym-axis, you only edit one vertex, edge or polygon, and the result is seen and done immediately "on the other side". Many things are symmetrical, and need (after [unlocking sym..]) only a few corrections to finish. This would be VERY helpful.