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tatts
DeleD PRO user
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 94
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 Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:44 pm Post subject: View port request |
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Hi, I would like to make a request myself. 
In each of the orthographic view ports, Is it possible you can add the option to view in texture/ shaded mode? Rather than just a wireframe.
Preferably in full screen.
The reason I ask is because I have been using this type of view in other editors to create baked textures, and would like to have the same option with deled since your lightmaps are no good to me. And truthfully unless you are using virtual lights/ realtime lighting, I think it is better to bake textures rather than using lightmaps anyway, and even then you should atleast have an ambient occlusion baked to your textures even if you are using virtual lights. But come to think of it, can deled even add an ambient occlusion? |
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elementrix
DeleD PRO user
Joined: 11 May 2006
Posts: 1300
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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- no you cannot have anything different then wireframe in orthographic views
Could you explain on how you use orthographic views to create baked textures?? I don't get that part unless your taking screenshots
how would you want to bake lighting in textures on a environment? even in unreal you have lightmaps.
sorry no ambient occlusion in DeleD, but there are some programs which can bake it for you for free (xnormal)
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Chickens RULE | www.elementrix.nl |
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tatts
DeleD PRO user
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| no you cannot have anything different then wireframe in orthographic views |
Why could'nt you? I can think of a bunch of other programs that can render textured/ shaded in an ortho view, Truespace being one of them.
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| Could you explain on how you use orthographic views to create baked textures?? I don't get that part unless your taking screenshots |
You just answered it for me. By taking screen shots. A lot of programs cannot bake an ambient occlusion directly to the texture, So I find doing it this way is a good alternative. I done it before for a house and it worked out well.
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| how would you want to bake lighting in textures on a environment? even in unreal you have lightmaps. |
The idea is to just bake an ambient occlusion to your objects then allow the virtual lighting or whatever to take care of the hard shadows during gameplay. As far as the terrain, you would'nt want to try it with that. your virtual lights will have to take care of that. i'd add the ambient to objects only.
I just find that using lightmaps along with realtime lighting or virtual lights however you would call it. With darkbasic pro just does not work out well.
I found it creates a bit of lighting issues and uses up to much power to render. Specially Deled lightmaps. The last time I lightmapped a house object with deled and loaded it into DBPro, I ended up with almost nothing for a framerate. Mainly because I had over a 100 idividual lightmap textures, all 512 in size. I have darklights, which is extremely good for lightmaps. The ambient occlusion from it is incredible. Problem is, Darklights, of all TGC software. I think is about the only program I have that Vista does not like. But now thinking of it, I may still be able to get it to run if I install the TGC stuff on C rather than in the program files folder.
I had to install oblivion on C just too get MODS to work properly. I never did try this with tgc software. But anyway seeing as Deled still does'nt have ambient occlusion, i guess it really does not matter than.
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| sorry no ambient occlusion in DeleD, but there are some programs which can bake it for you for free (xnormal) |
I did'nt know this. I will have to look into it. thanks |
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Bazeegamer
Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| I think basically what tatts originally wanted is the normal 3D view we already have but with locked camera positions such as with the orthographic views. By that I mean a camera on the left, right, top, bottom, back and front that just takes different views of the 3D space. Atleast that is my interpretation. |
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elementrix
DeleD PRO user
Joined: 11 May 2006
Posts: 1300
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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no you cannot have anything different then wireframe in orthographic views
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Why could'nt you? I can think of a bunch of other programs that can render textured/ shaded in an ortho view, Truespace being one of them. |
I also agree that this is a handy feature, and I meant that DeleD can't do this.
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| You just answered it for me. By taking screen shots. A lot of programs cannot bake an ambient occlusion directly to the texture, So I find doing it this way is a good alternative. I done it before for a house and it worked out well. |
very clever approach but not very effective, I don't get how you would make the AO work on for example a sphere with this method without getting distorted textures.
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The idea is to just bake an ambient occlusion to your objects then allow the virtual lighting or whatever to take care of the hard shadows during gameplay. As far as the terrain, you would'nt want to try it with that. your virtual lights will have to take care of that. i'd add the ambient to objects only.
I just find that using lightmaps along with realtime lighting or virtual lights however you would call it. With darkbasic pro just does not work out well.
I found it creates a bit of lighting issues and uses up to much power to render. Specially Deled lightmaps. The last time I lightmapped a house object with deled and loaded it into DBPro, I ended up with almost nothing for a framerate. Mainly because I had over a 100 idividual lightmap textures, all 512 in size. I have darklights, which is extremely good for lightmaps. The ambient occlusion from it is incredible. Problem is, Darklights, of all TGC software. I think is about the only program I have that Vista does not like. But now thinking of it, I may still be able to get it to run if I install the TGC stuff on C rather than in the program files folder.
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I though with "baking lightmaps" you were talking about the shadows coming from objects, as that would not work with baking to texture (or you'd have to use a new texture for every surface.
baking AO to textures is indeed the way to go combined with or "another shadow bake layer" or "realtime lights and shadows" (but in a few years you'll see SSAO everywhere (screen based ambient occlusion) and you won't have to bake any AO anymore:P
getting back to deled's lightmaps amounts and sizes I agree completely with you, however there are ways to still get good results and only a few lightmap textures if you plan your scene well and don't go overboard with the settings. example, the entire scene featured at the bottem of this page only uses 3 1024 textures for the lightmaps, both night and day: http://www.delgine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2923&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=75
There is one way how DeleD's lightmapper would be much more powerfull, and that is by giving us access to the lightmaps UV layer, so we can edit and overlay the UV's for the shadows ourselves. I already requested this a few times and it's now featured on the worklist for a future DeleD release  (not the next one, we don't know)
as in baking AO, I think it's better to just bake in 3rd party programs, xnormal bakes AO directly onto your texture (based on the UV's) and it can do both AO baking from high res to low res meshes, and baking of normal AO on objects.
it would be pretty hard to implement good AO, maya's AO bakes take ages to make. but they made the first step with adding a raytracer, as AO is based on bouncing rays.
We'll see, but try to learn xnormal and forget about taking screenshots.
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Chickens RULE | www.elementrix.nl |
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tatts
DeleD PRO user
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Well as it turns out it looks like I am going to be learning Blunder after all.  I have been playing Oblivion pretty heavily and wanted to create so models and mods of my own to add to the game. I looked for the importer and exporters, and it turns out they are only available for blender and 3ds max. So since I can't afford max.  I have tried the importer for the .nif files for oblivion and it works great.
Anyway it's a good thing because it does have the AO baking which is what I was looking for to start with. So I am going to bare down and learn it. Well touch up and learn the rest I should say. I atleast know the basics, I just never cared for the program.
@elementrix
I looked into that Xnormal program and D/L it. I have to get some tutorials on how to use but thanks for letting me know about it. |
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