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AWM Mars
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 1195
Location: Wilts England

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well actually, I was only thinking of you today... not in a romantic way you understand, but your current dilemma.
I have been looking at http://www.neoaxisgroup.com/ they have a Ogre based engine, that enables you to use your heightmap landscapes, meshes in Ogre format, use physics and shaders etc .. all for FREE. It also renders the whole environment in web browsers.

So far I am really impressed by the maturity of this platform, you must, must, did I say must, try out the tank demo.

It's maturity and expansive functionality is akin to Unity3D, without the high price. If you want to make money from your games etc using this platform, the costs are very reasonable.

The one big flaw for me is, despite using Ogre mesh formats, along with .skeleton etc.. it doesn't use the .material file format, there is a workaround, but I have requested an automatic converter for ppls like me (non-scriptors).
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harper
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Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 283
Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right, AWM; i have tested it already, and exact the cruel material handling was the reason to put it on my no-list. If they allow lazy artists like me using their good old textures, maybe i give it a second chance.
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AWM Mars
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010
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Location: Wilts England

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I am having a 'debate' atm with someone who believes writing some 'simple' code, is the answer to overcome the lack of support for .material format. This guy is a bit of a jerk, I guess he likes the sound of his own posts, rather than actually help anyone.

He said that NA does support .material format, then says you have to own Maya or 3DMax and use their exporters lol. This alters the .material files generated by the Ogre exporter into .highmaterial formats, something the platform doesn't do on the fly. Which is a bit of a shame as it supports Ogre formats in every other way.

Anyway, my hope is, someone from either the community or the ones that makes the big bucks from their licenses, will throw me/us a standalone converter. This Moderator needs to understand, his job isn't answering every post with gibberish, but to make sure trolls like him don't exist lol. Very Happy
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harper
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Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 283
Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be careful, AWM. As i suppose you are discussing with russians. I worked in Moskow fore some time, and you have to learn to "interpretate" all speeches in a specific way. Then you can get nearly all what you want.... hehe
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AWM Mars
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Location: Wilts England

PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I have already discovered this. It appears they are very very defensive about NeoAxis on the forums, even those not directly linked to the company. To the point of being evasive and somewhat contradictory.

I get the impression there is some 'snobbery' whereby those without coding/programming experience, are treated as simpletons. When I asked them for simple direction to information regarding how to apply materials to my model, they say, do hard work, read and read more, learn, use Resource Editor etc etc... and or, a lot of advise about writing a 'simple programme' to convert .material files into their native, albeit not Ogre friendly, .HighMaterial format.

I found it very strange how many said .material file format is supported, and then change their minds, saying it is not. As this is a mature programme, and one certainly for sale, therefore making money for its owners, that there is no defined work-flow to get Ogre meshes, along with the associated .material files, to work together as they should.
It would seem they adopted the Ogre graphic engine libs etc, but forked into using their own bespoke material files, without considering how to convert the formats.
The only work-flow I have fathomed out, that has potential, is to create a .HighMaterial file for each material, held within the .Ogre .material file, then reassign it to each mesh. Each High.Material file would have to be created, and make entries manually to each texture, lightmap, normal map etc, that already appears in the normal .material file.

It seems somewhat bizarre that they do not do this conversion automatically when you import the model, which by the way, is more manual work. You have to make a new directory within the buried Data directory, and put all your textures, lightmaps and mesh file inside. You can then use Resource Editor, to do a lot of hard manual work, to get your perfectly working Ogre model, to work in NeoAxis.

Looking at the Editors, they resemble the Viewports etc from QT, and are almost identical to the menus, tools etc used by nearly all Ogre based engines, which the exception of their bespoke material handling.

Oh, to be fair, there is a work-flow whereby you can export models directly into formats usable by NeoAxis, but, you have to own either Maya or 3DMax. There is plug-in available but no standalone programme for conversion. The plug-ins won't work with GMax either, not even Blender is supported Shocked
I was offered a 2 year old home grown programme by the chief moderator and defender of NeoAxis Laughing , which simply crashed saying it could not find a pathway to a file, that was not even listed in the .material file, or ever existed lol. He did say I may have to do some 'work' with it, on the source files, which as I kept telling them over and over, I do NOT PROGRAMME. Whats even stranger, the programme was copyright and no source code was available. Just as well this guy knows what he is talking about lol.

I love the Russians, I just could never eat a whole one. Laughing
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AWM Mars
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Location: Wilts England

PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it seems a good guy has come forward. In PM's, he has been walking me through some of the work arounds, and we are working together on one of my scenes. Hopefully, once this is done, I can write a short tutorial for anyone else wanting to export their models into NeoAxis.

What would be awesome, would be to have a DeleD exporter. I believe it uses the Ogre mesh format, but it is the .materials format that has been abandoned, in favour of a multilayered material format (.High.Material) so you can add normal/bump, spec etc layers with property adjustments etc. At the moment, the developers of the platform believe everyone is using a cracked.. opps.. legit copy, of either Maya or 3DMax, as that's the only exporters available.

I'll keep you posted, as you cannot read my PM's lol.
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harper
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Joined: 19 Jul 2007
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Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:17 pm    Post subject: no PM's Reply with quote

Sorry AWM, there are no PM's for me. But - in the Moment i'm focused on Torque3D. If i get a foot in their door (although there's a lack of tutorials for noobs and not-c++programmers like me) and definitely NOT before i trust this project to serve my needs for the next years, then i would like to use their very useful editors to bring up (maybe maybe) a playable thing.
BUT: This time i take the time, it takes to decide.
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AWM Mars
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Location: Wilts England

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, you wont be able to see the PM's I am getting on the NeoAxis forums. As I said, I'll post information here as it develops.

Already I have added my ChessWorld environment to NeoAxis, and its fully functional. I've also added Normal Mapping to some of the textures, along with reflection map to the mirror. The Work-Flow was surprisingly easy and quick, once you know how. It has also opened up a lot more possibilities for my environments over Blink3D and other Ogre based platforms I've used.

I'm working on getting a work-flow now for animated user avatars, so I can make a working environment that can be hosted in our thin client browser kiosk, to run trials on.

I'm making a tutorial on how to use/create high.materials in NeoAxis, which is the key to being able to see, use the platform.
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harper
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Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 283
Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A working work flow; animated avatars; easy material-creation - that sounds great. If you achieve this, i'll give NeoAxis another try. Do it!
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trucker2000
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Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 1839
Location: Sacramento, California

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Continued from the pluggin thread....

Quote:
Hi Trucker,
my problem? i know this expands the plugin-forum. But this one sentence must be OK:
I started a new scene from scratch, imported successfully one of my terrains and a house, got my textures in, mady my sky and replaced the little boring water-plane from Freeworld with a editable river; but i don't get the player-avatar (Gideon) working; can't take control of him.
It will be missing one or two simple associations that is not in my mind....

Gideon should work out of the box. Are you using the "w,s,a,d" keyes to move him?

In "game/scripts/client/default.bind.cs" You'll find:
Code:
moveMap.bind( keyboard, a, moveleft ); // This is a strafe move. (sidestep)
moveMap.bind( keyboard, d, moveright );
moveMap.bind( keyboard, left, moveleft );
moveMap.bind( keyboard, right, moveright );

moveMap.bind( keyboard, w, moveforward ); // walk...actually, run forward
moveMap.bind( keyboard, s, movebackward );
moveMap.bind( keyboard, up, moveforward );
moveMap.bind( keyboard, down, movebackward );


For some stupid reason, they also have the same code in (same folder)/config.cs so if you want to make a change, you'll have to make it in both places. According to the defaults, gideon should move using wsad or the arrow keyes.
If all those are correct, then I have no clue. I've never had a problem gettting the avatars to move. (default ones)
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harper
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Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 283
Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:13 pm    Post subject: Yippie!! Reply with quote

Hi beloved community,
i am proud to tell you, i get some what not every "game maker" gets:
A professional musician, specialized on game music. And the best:
It's my longest, oldest friend i got: Old Man. Having fun together for about
several decades, playing DXXM from 4 diskettes together etc. i know him
well as a fabulous musician, as live drummer in different sorts of bands,
but also creating even more different kinds of music electronically;
First experience with good old C64, he now uses Magix for real audio-art.
This is what he made for my video "South of Meynis":

http://www.harpersoft.de/Meynis/South.wmv

Next week he will have the main-theme for Meynheim ready, so i can
show you another piece of music.
And for the Torque-interested: It seems to fit my needs....
to be continued....
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Jeroen
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Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 5332
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Compliments to your friend! The music has quite a bit of variation and fits the scene perfectly. I can certainly imagine you're happy about your friend helping you out here. I do hope you guys come up with more of this stuff. Smile
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moraldi
DeleD PRO user


Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 112
Location: Hellas

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great modeling and atmospheric music.

keep going harper!
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trucker2000
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Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 1839
Location: Sacramento, California

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the music and the environment you've created. The music fits perfectly. Smile

btw, did you get your problems with torque 3D solved?
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Sys specs:
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Invidia gtx560 video card
Windows 8 (worst op sys Ever)
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harper
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Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 283
Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:36 am    Post subject: Music Reply with quote

Thanks for the kind replies, i carry it to him.
And yes, i think i can make it in Torque. See here:

http://www.harpersoft.de/Meynis/Meynis_T21.wmv

Now i have to find out, how to remove the rocket-launcher and
how to change the players model and behaviour.
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