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Cutter-Method and Nameable Groups

 
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Lo_Ord
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Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 8
Location: Vienna, Austria

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:56 am    Post subject: Cutter-Method and Nameable Groups Reply with quote

Hi!

There are two things I'd like to suggest and discuss, I think they might be useful.

1. Cutter Method:
I know Jeroen said, he is already planning to implement this function, still I'd have one or two ideas:

The idea is the following: To cut an object into two pieces, you e.g. create a plane and then let the editor cut the desired object into two pieces along this cutter-plane.

The easiest way (imo) is, that you create a plane in one view (just create two vertices), then there could be two modes:
Mode 1: Cuts the object into two pieces and removes one of them. In the Unreal Tournament-Editor for example an arrow is indicating the direction of the side, which will be deleted.
Mode 2: Cuts the object into two pieces. I think it would be usefull if both objects become independent, meaning that you create two objects out of one.

I know it's possible to do a similar thing with the Split-Command, still there will be artifacts and I don't think the command is ment to do that thing Wink

2. Nameable Groups
I posted it in the To-Do-Thread, but I don't think that is the right place *g*

The idea is that you can give groups of meshes an actual id or name, e.g. "houses", "trees", "fences", etc.
Not only this would make group - selection more comfortable, but it would make some things easier. For example there could be a list of your groups attached to the Hide-/Freeze - Window, so you just would have to select your groups by name, click "Hide" - voila!

Another possible use was posted by Brian:
Brian wrote:

Grouping plays a very important role in building and it would be great if we could rename certain groups and save them. To indicate another use for this apart from the ones you have mentioned is in lightmapping. Especially when certain groups require diferent light settings.

It would also be useful if under the Edit menu (I know you can select grouped objects in the Scene Inspector) you could select objects by Name or Group. So if you could name certain objects groups it would make things a lot easier.


Regards

Lo_Ord
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Jeroen
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Joined: 07 Aug 2004
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Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the suggestions - much appreciated! Smile

About 1: I'll implement this in DeleD 1.5x. The DeleD 1.5 implementation list is fixed. Wink

About 2: I already wrote a prototype that works pretty well but I have to investige the impact it has on the current DeleD implementation. I suspect that impact to be large so it'll be implemented somewhere after 1.5 release.

Btw, DeleD 1.5 is scheduled somewhere in August.
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Daaark
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Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In another editor, there was a nice little tool called the clipper. You would press the key to start the clipper, and place the end point down on the grid, then move the cursor to where you want the endpoint, then you'd get a line, and you'd use that line to clip corners off of cubes and cut stuff in half.

Very handy.
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Jeroen
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vampyre_Dark wrote:
In another editor, there was a nice little tool called the clipper. You would press the key to start the clipper, and place the end point down on the grid, then move the cursor to where you want the endpoint, then you'd get a line, and you'd use that line to clip corners off of cubes and cut stuff in half.

Very handy.


That's exactly what I'm going to implement. Smile

I once had implemented this same feature in a very old version of DeleD that got wiped away when my HD crashed. Then I decided to rebuild DeleD without that tool because I thought nobody would use it anyway... Embarassed
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Daaark
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Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeroen wrote:
I thought nobody would use it anyway... Embarassed
I used to use it all the time. I have missed it at times, but everything I used to use it for can be done with the other operations.

It was handy in the brush editors because you couldn't manipulate vertices very well. You pull 1 vertex, and then rest deform too. Always hated that. Confused So you would clip away at things to make shapes that are easy to make in DeleD now.
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Lo_Ord
DeleD PRO user


Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 8
Location: Vienna, Austria

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vampyre_Dark wrote:
In another editor, there was a nice little tool called the clipper. You would press the key to start the clipper, and place the end point down on the grid, then move the cursor to where you want the endpoint, then you'd get a line, and you'd use that line to clip corners off of cubes and cut stuff in half.

Very handy.


Wow, totally forgot about THAT use! In the UT-Editor, I used the clipper way more often to cut corners than to cut an object in half Smile
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hpesoj
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Joined: 16 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would the clipper tool create polygons to fill the gaps at the split?
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Jeroen
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hpesoj wrote:
Would the clipper tool create polygons to fill the gaps at the split?


Optionally. Smile
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Jeroen
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vampyre_Dark wrote:
In another editor, there was a nice little tool called the clipper. You would press the key to start the clipper, and place the end point down on the grid, then move the cursor to where you want the endpoint, then you'd get a line, and you'd use that line to clip corners off of cubes and cut stuff in half.

Very handy.


Actually, just thought of the this but... Using the CSG Split command with a rectangle being the splitter object produces the same results. Or does a "clipper" command have special properties? Or does the CSG Split command produce unwanted side-effects?
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Daaark
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Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 2696
Location: Ottawa, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeroen wrote:
Vampyre_Dark wrote:
In another editor, there was a nice little tool called the clipper. You would press the key to start the clipper, and place the end point down on the grid, then move the cursor to where you want the endpoint, then you'd get a line, and you'd use that line to clip corners off of cubes and cut stuff in half.

Very handy.


Actually, just thought of the this but... Using the CSG Split command with a rectangle being the splitter object produces the same results. Or does a "clipper" command have special properties? Or does the CSG Split command produce unwanted side-effects?


I've never used the spit command, sorry. But, creating and then properly oritenting a rectangle is a lot slower then two clicks and a hot key to make a line.
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Lo_Ord
DeleD PRO user


Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 8
Location: Vienna, Austria

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeroen wrote:
Vampyre_Dark wrote:
In another editor, there was a nice little tool called the clipper. You would press the key to start the clipper, and place the end point down on the grid, then move the cursor to where you want the endpoint, then you'd get a line, and you'd use that line to clip corners off of cubes and cut stuff in half.

Very handy.


Actually, just thought of the this but... Using the CSG Split command with a rectangle being the splitter object produces the same results. Or does a "clipper" command have special properties? Or does the CSG Split command produce unwanted side-effects?


Actually yes, look at this pic:


I used a rectangle as a splitter, and it produced these artifacts...

Well, the "clipper" used to not produce these artifacts.
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hpesoj
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Joined: 16 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, csg split produces artifacts/extra polygons as it has to deal with intersections between any combination of polygons. It doesn't fare too well with complex objects or non-solid objects. From what I've gathered, a clipper command (it's called a knife or cut in other apps) would manifest itself as a line drawn across the screen, extended along the local camera z direction in a plane, and then intersected with any selected objects, not as an intersection between two sets of geometry.

Knife/clipper tool would produce no artifacts/extra polygons as it only has to intersect one set of geometry with a plane. Also a knife tool would be easier and more convenient in a lot of places than CSG Split.

Note that a knife tool could have several options:

- Split into two objects *
- Keep object as one

- Split polygons *
- Split polygons and fill gap with polygons *
- Just create new edges

The * options would only be possible if the plane completely disected the object.
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