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Announcement: DeleD goes Open Source!
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Jeroen
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Joined: 07 Aug 2004
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Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that, Grandmaster B, that's exactly the kind of spirit we're looking for. Smile

Rest assured, DeleD will go open source. We see it as the best way to ensure that DeleD is enhanced and expanded in the future, even when PJ and I don't have that much time anymore. We hope a number of people of this community and coders from SourceForge are willing to contribute.

The fact that DeleD has thousands and thousands of users worldwide should attract coders to its development, I think. It will be, indeed, all up to you guys. The more programmers and managers willing to contribute, the more chance DeleD has of becoming bigger and better.

Btw, having DeleD ported to Linux or Mac is certainly possible when DeleD goes open source, I would say. But you're right when you say that learning and improving the existing code should have priority. It's a pretty large bag of sourcecode there... Wink
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Mr.Fletcher
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been a Mac user for a couple of months now and I would love to see DeleD ported to Mac Very Happy
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chronozphere
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Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Porting DeleD is a good idea, but It should be done when most of the current bugs are solved and most of long wanted feature-requests are implemented. Furthermore, porting code is not my piece of cake. We need other programmers to do that.
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Grandmaster B
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Joined: 03 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to this: http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/page,7.html
If we port to Lazarus/Free Pascal its possible to compile to Linux and Mac without changes...

Quote:
Lazarus is being developed to be totally and completely API independent. Once you write your code you just link it against the API widget set of your choice.
...
For example. Let's say you are creating a product on Windows using the standard Windows widgets. Now you want to create a Linux version. ... So you copy the code over to your Linux development machine, ... You've now just created a Linux version of the Windows product without any additional coding.
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paul_nicholls
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Joined: 05 Dec 2007
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Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grandmaster B wrote:
According to this: http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/page,7.html
If we port to Lazarus/Free Pascal its possible to compile to Linux and Mac without changes...

Quote:
Lazarus is being developed to be totally and completely API independent. Once you write your code you just link it against the API widget set of your choice.
...
For example. Let's say you are creating a product on Windows using the standard Windows widgets. Now you want to create a Linux version. ... So you copy the code over to your Linux development machine, ... You've now just created a Linux version of the Windows product without any additional coding.


Also, unless a delphi project is using non-basic GUI controls, Lazarus also comes with Delphi Project to Lazarus Project converter tools too, which can speed up conversions by a huge amount Smile

cheers,
Paul
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Paul-Jan
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Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think trying to get DeleD ported to FPC is an excellent idea. Making the source code accessible through a free toolset(*) is a worthwhile goal in itself. Cross-platform compatibility is a long-standing dream.

However, do not underestimate the troubles you will run into when doing such a conversion. Lazarus' automatic conversion will not handle anything but the most trivial GUIs correctly, and the DeleD interface is anything but trivial.

From our initial research in this direction (some time ago), I'm guessing it will be at least 1.5 months FTE worth of work. This is a very loose guestimation as I have no hands/on experience porting GUIs, but what I hear (from FPC's own crew amonst others) it won't be very easy.

Still, it would be awesome, and might be one of the most valuable directions to take the application into.

(*) DeleD is pretty much compatible with the free Turbo Delphi 2006 Explorer edition, but that compiler product line is EOL.
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Jeroen
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just installed Lazarus and did a basic conversion of DeleD. Indeed, lots of challenges to overcome here. It will take some time before such a conversion is performed.

The main thing is that Delphi's VCL and Lazarus' LCL are not compatible 100%. While most properties of forms, frames and controls are supported, a number of them are not. I also noticed that the FPC doesn't like some assembler code. Also, it doesn't seem to like the opengl.pas file we use, which contains a number of indentifiers Lazarus doesn't seem to be able to find. Might have something to do with stdcalls in the opengl.pas file.

These are just some things I discovered while playing with Lazarus for an hour or so. First impression of Lazarus is pretty good and I think it is certainly possible to port DeleD to that environment. Just takes time... time... time... Wink
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chronozphere
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Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

DeleD is pretty much compatible with the free Turbo Delphi 2006 Explorer edition, but that compiler product line is EOL.


Great.. That's my primary development enviroment at the moment. Very Happy
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fik
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Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 303

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe you could make it compatible with free Turbo Delphi 2006 Explorer. I know this is not avaliable anymore but I bet most who are interested in developing Deled at start with you already have this installed. I do.
Then goal should be to port to free pascal/ lazarus.
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Jeroen
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fik wrote:
Maybe you could make it compatible with free Turbo Delphi 2006 Explorer. I know this is not avaliable anymore but I bet most who are interested in developing Deled at start with you already have this installed. I do.
Then goal should be to port to free pascal/ lazarus.


That's also a path we could follow. I would most definitely like to get my hands on a copy of free Turbo Delphi... Perhaps its still available somewhere on the web?
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Grandmaster B
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont have it either, this side seems to have the official download files:
http://www.turbomirror.com/

But you also need to register for an activation code which is no longer available! I've an old activation code for Turbo C++ which i will try. I'll tell you if i get this working...
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fik
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe this helps http://threads.embarcadero.com/threads/threads.exe/view?commentid=42196
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Grandmaster B
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, there is no normal way to activate it anymore.
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tpascal
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Joined: 23 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great news,

But just dont give the source expecting programers will come with their own initiative to do newer versions; we need a leadership, we need direction, we need a path to follow, lets get organized, plan for a next deled version coded with the help of volunteers.

it is important to define:

* Which will be the base compiler.
You have current deled version and it compile right away in which delphi version?,
Maybe you can post a pool wich delphi version is more commun among programmers around here and are interested in participate in the project.
Or you can state that develompment can be done in more that one compiler but avoiding exclusive compilers features so its keep compatibility with lets say delphi6, delphi7, delphi9, delphi10.

* A list features you want to include in that next deled version.
Yeap, you can get some programers interested in participate in the project, some they can program in pascal, even beter some they have the compiler version is required...and you are lucky if some of they also have the knolodges about the 3d feature you wish to get help to be implemented.
Let make a list of realistic new features for a next version, bone weigthed vertex for skined mesh?, Normal map (bumpmap) features, perpixel lights?, particles effect editors?....

* Once you have defined the above, then ask for programers raise their hand and assing them tasks, give they direction and rules, and give them some docs, short tutorials or examples about your basic functins and procedures or classes used as fundation in your deled; (dont allow every programmer use their own matrix or vector library if you already have those working and integrated in your own base.

If you just give the deled source code, with no vision plan, then most likely it will happen few guys will donwload the source, will make it compile with the compiler version they have, they will add some features for their own purpose...and that is.
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Jeroen
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that, tpascal, excellent post. You're absolutely right. It is good to mention thoughts like that and its important to emphasize that we need programmers, testers and managers.

More details will be made available a.s.a.p. We just want to get as much input from the community as possible before defining those details.
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