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Announcement: DeleD goes Open Source!
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Grandmaster B
DeleD PRO user


Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 218

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi tpascal,

i see that youre willing to help on the quest, be sure that you are most welcome!

I agree on what you wrote, especially that we need some kind of vision, documentation and management.
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afecelis
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Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 427
Location: Colombia

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow wow wow wow wow! Shocked Shocked Shocked
J and PJ......I'm totally speechless..... but happy as hell as this will benefit the indie scene enormously.

All I can say is congratz for not being selfish and keeping deled to yourselves and rather making such a generous move.

I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision to make, but I'm glad you're making the right one. As usual, this only increases my admiration for you and your program. I just wish I were an uber programmer and was able to help some more, but I'm sure I'll be there on the testing side Smile

who said merry xmas? Very Happy Very Happy

love ya guys.

Alvaro
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ThatMan
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Joined: 10 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:15 am    Post subject: interesting Reply with quote

if pro becomes open source can we still download it from this site
and will any changes to it after that help with x file support since its alittle buggy
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Paul-Jan
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Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 3064
Location: Lage Zwaluwe

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Afecelis... Thanks for the appreciation, mate...

@ThatMan: This site will link (and probably host, but it doesn't really matter) to the up to date downloadable DeleD binaries (executable and/or full installer), yes.

What changes will be made when is not something I can say beforehand. How open source works is that people report issues in the issue tracker, other people support or vote on those issues, and volunteer programmers (and other contributors to the project) decide on which to pick up first.

What this basically means is that the more "important" an issue seems to the people contributing to the project, the sooner it tends to get fixed. The .X exporter is quite essential functionality, so I'd say chances are pretty good someone will pick them up quickly

However, next to the formal issue tracker (which is the most direct place to report issues), we'll definitely keep the forums open for issues and suggestions. Volunteers will pick up the stuff from here and put it into the tracker.

So basically, nothing will change in the way things will be handled, except for the facts that:
a) It won't be just Jeroen and me who decide what things get done first
b) With more people working on the project, things will move along faster.
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Daniel
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Joined: 22 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great to see this happening, blender followed the same route and see where it got them. Tho I have a word of warning:

One of the main reasons people like Deled is the way it keeps things simple, I still use Deled for all simple base meshes over Blender just because I don't have to worry about difficult things. Please keep Deled's
nature/origin alive.
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chronozphere
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Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 1010
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Daniel: That's true, therefore I think we should focus on improving existing features (CSG, texture-mapping) instead of trying to add a whole new shader/material system. Smile
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NohBahDih
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Joined: 07 Nov 2008
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

YAHSHUA YHWH GOD BLESS you,

Whoa, i leave for a bit, kept busy reading books on Game Development at DeVry, animation, etc. etc. etc., leave for a while, next thing i know you are "giving the application" away (not meaning this in a "bad" way). i think i still owe you a tank (from one of the "everyone models threads") which i am still hoping to do but in low poly Zbrush style.

If my programming skills were not so weak, the language was C#, and i was not a "one man team" that is basically not sleeping a lot to get what little i do get done, done, i would help but i am all ready nearly a year into getting you that tank.

i was using TGEA/TGE (but never got any sort of game going or beyond crashes) but have been looking at XNA and Unity. There is some interest at Unity that just started, so you might look there for programmer help; i barely got a 2D game started in XNA, so i am obviously not very good at programming.

Meanwhile, i just thought i would "stop in" and let you know that some of the Unity people were looking and you might like to know.

Dih

edit: oh by the way, has there been any new releases of the Torque exporter?
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zumwalt
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Joined: 24 Dec 2009
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:11 pm    Post subject: brave move indeed Reply with quote

Delphi is easy language, it is based on the original Pascal engine, back in the day, that fit on a 3 and 1/2 " floppy, 720k disk at that, SS/SD, Delphi is actually easier to program in than C++ honestly. Unfortunately at current I don't have a copy of it anymore that I know of, I had Delphi 7 before I moved, don't know where the CD's are anymore. I don't know what your business model is for moving this forward once you go open source, I just hate to see this product die.
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Paul-Jan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless you concider "keeping the project alive" a valid business proposition, there is no business model in the sense of economical value being generated. We will spend no less time on the project than we do now, and we can directly leverage the manpower from a couple of volunteers for project management from the start, so from that perspective the chances of the project "surviving" are definitely increasing as a result of DeleD going Open Source.

Having an OS project with a technical lockin with a programming language that itself is not free is perhaps not optimal, but should not turn into a showstopper. There are plenty of people with access to Delphi out there. We are also looking at feasible ways to making the 2006 explorer edition available, plus we are investigating making the source cross-compilable into FPC/Lazarus (which is 100% free and open).
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zarfius
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Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is some interesting news.

I'm a programmer and a DeleD Pro user. I can say that while DeleD is great I have found that I still end up writing my own tools for many tasks. It'd be great to be able to build them directly into the editor to make life that much easier.

That said, I'd like to see the code first before committing to anything Smile
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oliebol
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Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 8
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starnick wrote:

I do have some doubt though, how many delphi/pascal programmers are there on these forums anyways? I don't think the programmer population here is that big to begin with. .


If you count the ones that can manage sizeable projects, it is probably larger than Python/Perl/PHP or whatever scripting language.

And that matters in this case Smile

Pascal has an own Free RAD, Lazarus, created without any external sponsorship. Not many languages can claim such feat.
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oliebol
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeroen wrote:

The main thing is that Delphi's VCL and Lazarus' LCL are not compatible 100%. While most properties of forms, frames and controls are supported, a number of them are not. I also noticed that the FPC doesn't like some assembler code. Also, it doesn't seem to like the opengl.pas file we use, which contains a number of indentifiers Lazarus doesn't seem to be able to find. Might have something to do with stdcalls in the opengl.pas file.


Make sure you use a -trunk version for maximum compatibility. Paul Ishenin and I implemented several win32 only properties in fall. (for the Bloodshed IDE).

MDI will be a big blocker if you use it, and it could be easier to add it to lazarus than to remove usage from existing projects.

Note that not everything that works in lazarus/win32 will also in other widgetsets. However QT does support MDI.

The opengl.pas thing might be a simple unit name clash. FPC comes with an opengl unit.

In general, make reports of your attempts. Lazarus thrives on slow but steady progress due to a steady stream of bugreports and minor patches.
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chronozphere
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Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys

I noticed that the source is available in the repository at Sourceforge. I downloaded it this morning and I started to analyze it. I think PJ and Jeroen did a terrific job. The code is nicely structured and the names used are quite descriptive. Smile

But I think we still need some documentation about the following topics:
> Setting up DeleD and compiling it
> Scene orginization: Classes and types
> Tool orginization: Classes and types
> Rendering and viewports

Learning how something works from the source can be very time consuming, so IMHO writing these docs should have a high priority.

Moreover, we need to some figure out:
> Who is doing what?
> How to keep track of changes?
> How do we use SVN? Branches, tags etc..
> Where to put documentation? (Wiki probably)
> Maybe some coding guidelines..

Anyone? Cool

P.S: I know how to work with SVN (The basics), but I have never participated in such a big project. I need to learn how to organize loads of source files, how to merge branches etc... Does anyone know a good tutorial?
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tpascal
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Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

I noticed that the source is available in the repository at Sourceforge. I downloaded it this morning and I started to analyze it. I think PJ and Jeroen did a terrific job. The code is nicely structured and the names used are quite descriptive.


Thank you for telling us, Very Happy

I have downloaded the source copy and i was able to compile it with Delphi 7 under windows XP, not much trouble i found, just few setings and directories setup and it compile flawless!!.

It is going to be a herculean task to those two guys (jeroen and Paul) to explain and document everithing for us; so lets start contributing to the project inspecting de code and figuring out for our self what ever we can, some of us are well experienced for doing that and then posting here in the forum (but in a different thread maybe) what we discover, lets be patient, LETS NOT start making changes just yet, lets beging learning the fundation of the code and show what we found here in the forum.

Quote:

But I think we still need some documentation about the following topics:
> Setting up DeleD and compiling it


Ok, like i said i was able to compile the source with delphi 7, so this is what i did:

1.- I downloaded the Deled CE 2.4 Installer, and run it, this will install the whole executable and media files in the program files directory.

2.- In the develop tab in sourceforge, click svn browse code and click in download GNU tarball, this will download the full source code in tr.gz compressed, you can extract the files with WinRar.

3.- Put the source code in any folder you want., inside the folder you will found the \units folder, inside that you will found \FastMM folder, if you dont already have fastmm unit installed in your delphi version then i suggest to cut and paste \fastMM folder into your Delphi folder and then add the folder path into your delphi library path (Tools, Enviroment options, library path...)

4.- Ok, now in Delphi Open deled.dpr project, go to menu Project, Options, and select Directories/Conditionals, there into "Output directory" browse the folder where you installed the full Delphi CE from step 1.

5.- Now just Hit F9 to compile the project, it should compile flawles and a new deled.exe will be generated and executed from the program files instalation.

Good Luck, Very Happy
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trucker2000
DeleD PRO user


Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 1839
Location: Sacramento, California

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chronozphere wrote:
Hey guys

I noticed that the source is available in the repository at Sourceforge. I downloaded it this morning and I started to analyze it. I think PJ and Jeroen did a terrific job. The code is nicely structured and the names used are quite descriptive. Smile

But I think we still need some documentation about the following topics:
> Setting up DeleD and compiling it
> Scene orginization: Classes and types
> Tool orginization: Classes and types
> Rendering and viewports

Learning how something works from the source can be very time consuming, so IMHO writing these docs should have a high priority.

Moreover, we need to some figure out:
> Who is doing what?
> How to keep track of changes?
> How do we use SVN? Branches, tags etc..
> Where to put documentation? (Wiki probably)
> Maybe some coding guidelines..

Anyone? Cool

P.S: I know how to work with SVN (The basics), but I have never participated in such a big project. I need to learn how to organize loads of source files, how to merge branches etc... Does anyone know a good tutorial?


Got a link? I only found deled ce without the source.
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