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Announcement: DeleD goes Open Source!
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chronozphere
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Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 1010
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tpascal explained one way of getting the source. You need to click "develop" to make some new options appear. Then click "Code" -> "SVN Browse". Then you'll see a "Download GNU tarball" link. Smile

I used an SVN client called "tortoiseSVN" to get the source. You can install that.
It will add a few items to your explorer's context menu. Make a new directory called "DeleD source" or something and right click -> SVN checkout. Now use the following URL:

https://deled.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/deled

and hit OK. This will download the sources into your "working directory" you just made.

Using an SVN client is a better option when you (eventually) want to contribute to the project. It let's you commit changes to the repository and do all kinds of other stuff I have still to learn. Wink
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trucker2000
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Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 1839
Location: Sacramento, California

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. I used svn to get it.
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chronozphere
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Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yay.. just compiled the source. Smile
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G_Freeman
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Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 3
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all thank you for DeleD and thank you for going open source, it's definitely the right thing to do an a great opportunity to the community! I'm just starting out with DeleD but I find it the most intuitive 3D modeling tool I have used so far and am very happy with it!

I must say however that I believe, as others have pointed out before, that it could be useful if the source were available in another language that is better known and more widely used throughout the open source community, e.g. C++ or Java. Java applications also have the advantage of being cross-platform (mostly). So I think that a port to another language could be useful, although I realize porting alone will require a huge effort.

How would the original authors feel about the creation of such a fork project?
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Paul-Jan
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Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 3064
Location: Lage Zwaluwe

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We would of course not oppose such an effort, but you have to realize we are a bit of pascal lovers (the Del in delgine is for Delphi) so we wouldn't get overly enthousiastic either. We are conciously trying to get an open source pascal project off the ground here. For those who want to contribute to an open source modeler written in C++, there is always the Blender project.

Then again, open source is about ŽopenŽ, so knock yourself out! Very Happy We could get a little race going to see which project makes the most progress... Wink
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Starnick
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Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 611

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eh, a java port probably wouldn't be a good idea. While JOGL and LWJGL are out there for the openGL rendering, having all the plugins working with the port would most likely be pretty difficult task (JNI and all).

I'd rather see straight up C++ (which can be pretty portable), or C# just for faster/easier development.

And this is coming from a guy who rather likes java too Razz
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G_Freeman
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Joined: 24 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Paul-Jan for the open/liberal/competitive spirit!

Starnick, valid point regarding those plugins. Although I think it would be doable with JNI, there will still be the issue that DLL's only work under Windows (natively at least). Didn't think about that (didn't put much thought in it all together, just brainstorming a little).

Ideally, I believe that the functionality of useful plugins should be integrated into the main app when they too become open source (hopefully soon enough). Is there a point in having a plugin infrastructure when everyone wanting to extend DeleD can also simply access the source code? This also has the benefit of not being restricted to only import/export functionality.
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Starnick
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Joined: 28 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G_Freeman wrote:
Thanks Paul-Jan for the open/liberal/competitive spirit!

Starnick, valid point regarding those plugins. Although I think it would be doable with JNI, there will still be the issue that DLL's only work under Windows (natively at least). Didn't think about that (didn't put much thought in it all together, just brainstorming a little).

Ideally, I believe that the functionality of useful plugins should be integrated into the main app when they too become open source (hopefully soon enough). Is there a point in having a plugin infrastructure when everyone wanting to extend DeleD can also simply access the source code? This also has the benefit of not being restricted to only import/export functionality.


Well not every plugin is official delgine, so I wouldn't count on them all being open source. I think a plugin system is still a good idea, because many people may want to focus on a very small program rather than trying to integrate it into the core (then the core becomes pretty bloated too). Especially when regarding importer's/exporters, its nice being able to drag and drop them. You don't want to have to recompile the entire project, and distribute it when you write a new exporter, when you could just distribute the dll to users.

With that said, I think the plugin system should be a lot better, but that's another matter.

Finding good java programmers (plus those who can translate delphi), and people who are familar with JNI (I've tinkered with it, as at one time I was thinking of writing a plugin to export to the jMonkey 2.0 binary format, so I could use their binary IO packages), is going to be difficult. If there is to be a port, I'd say its better to do a more straight forward option.
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themartian
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Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:25 pm    Post subject: Plugin Source Reply with quote

Quote:
- Sourcecode of plugins will also be open sourced, including the Torque Export plugin.


This still going to happen? It is still listed for 14.95, so wondering if the intention is still to open source this plugin as mentioned in the first post of this thread.
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Nocturn
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Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 635

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Plugin Source Reply with quote

themartian wrote:
This still going to happen? It is still listed for 14.95, so wondering if the intention is still to open source this plugin as mentioned in the first post of this thread.


http://www.delgine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4053
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oliebol
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Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 8
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starnick wrote:
Eh, a java port probably wouldn't be a good idea. While JOGL and LWJGL are out there for the openGL rendering, having all the plugins working with the port would most likely be pretty difficult task (JNI and all).

I'd rather see straight up C++ (which can be pretty portable), or C# just for faster/easier development.

And this is coming from a guy who rather likes java too Razz


I don't think that Java and C# are so suitable for this kind of programming. They shine in business programming where you can assume the correct runtime version installed on every desktop in the company, and their comfortability partially comes from the heavily lifting done by their business oriented huge libraries and frameworks, which are pretty useless for a project like this.

C++ is more suitable, but I don't think it is any better than Delphi, except for its ripe STL. Also C++ maps better to Delphi, so a conversion would be more doable. The problem with C++ is that there seems to be no environment like Lazarus that allows multiplatform coding while still generating a native, standalone win32 GUI application. (they all either win32 specific, or require Unix GUI libraries like wxwidgets,qt or gtk)

Still the importance of changing to a different language should not be overexaggerated. Delphi is easy to learn for a C++er (in the office we had people picking it up in under a month), and getting acquainted with a source of this magnitude is a bigger challenge than that bit of syntax, which should be easy for any pro.

IOW, somebody who requires a conversion to start working, was probably never serious to begin with.
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